Hear Some Music I've Enjoyed...Randomly Selected for You
X - Tunnel Scene - Acapella | Youtube This guy did an amazing Guile theme, too.
Marie Laforet - Viens Viens | Youtube
X - Tunnel Scene - Acapella | Youtube This guy did an amazing Guile theme, too.
Marie Laforet - Viens Viens | Youtube
The various branches of Jungian psychology give us healthy models against which we can compare ourselves. In the case of the Meyers-Briggs INTJ (Socionics ILI, etc.), I believe a Tony Stark vs. Iron Man comparison makes it easier to offer an “unhealthy vs. healthy” visualization.
This person is a slave to their compulsions, driven by their senses.
Note that “driven by” and “being a slave to” are different from “enjoy this activity” and “like to do this activity periodically for relaxation”.
Well, I get the feeling the metaphor will break soon. But I think it’s worth watching the way Iron Man solves problems (even if it literally just appears to be Tony Stark inside a suit) vs. how Tony Stark the man attempts to solve problems.
One question worth considering is, say you’re an INTJ and you’re haunted by typical INTJ inferior Se problems like:
Your anxiety is over the top, and beyond that you’ve got a nice layer of depression weighing everything down.
So how do you get to Iron Man? You feel like Tony Stark with his hands tied.
I think I’d suggest measurement, first.
A good notebook is an excellent tool for getting at those measurements.
Once you have the measurements, the solutions start to suggest themselves:
This is pretty rough thought. But for me the overall picture works. And of course, you get to be Iron Man. Who doesn’t want to be Iron Man?
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I hereby release myself from my inferior function’s need to do things by myself.
Needing to do things myself has been a huge mistake; I hope it’s not too late to fix all the problems this has caused.
Had I known about inferior Se, secondary Te, etc. I probably would have planned out my life much differently.
But we can’t go back in time, now can we? And I guess I’m the kind of person who thinks regrets are OK and normal.
From here on out I am a systems guy, I measure things, I analyze them.
If Se wants to come out and play for recreational purposes, perfect.
If Ni wants me to gather things I’m missing, those things are now suspect. Especially physical things. Especially things I buy in patterns.
INTJs are so bad at collecting things. We should never do that unless accompanied by an expert. It’s common for INTJs, I think, to gather things, the most optimal things, and then throw them away all at once. Talk about hyperbolic.
I threw away an optimal bicycle once. I thank my parents for not sticking me with the bill.
I’m thankful I’ve learned all this stuff.
I’m conscious that my life is about to change dramatically. It already has, physically. But waves of change are vibrating through me. Tears come to my eyes, anticipating the changes that have to follow this recent psychological overhaul. Studying Jungian psychology and its models has been a huge benefit. The weight loss was just a start. I’ve had crazy dreams lately, visions during the daytime. They’ve always been there in the background, but…
I have new tools to use now. I am sliding into my real self like I’ve been away from it for a while, like it’s a comfortable seat in a fighter jet.
[Are fighter jet seats even comfortable?]
[I had a professor who said “everyone should write a manifesto.” Mine’s done for now, felt pretty good.]
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This is not huge, but it is.
I believe an extremely perceptive person might have a chance of straightening this kind of course by themselves, without any particular psychology knowledge.
However, for me, I would have probably quit.
I was reporting to an ESTJ. This person was marked by the following:
The Ne fears collided early on with my inferior function, Se. I could feel this person’s concerns about a previous project with some other person carrying into our relationship without any good reason. I had not messed up their last project, someone else had.
I had a real ownership stake in my work—that was the beginning of my problem.
Taking a bigger-picture view, I was focusing on contributing from my inferior function, one of the most sensitive parts of my psyche. The more I researched Se, my inferior function, the more I realized what my problem really was—this issue of ownership and pride in my own ability to provide a well-executed work product.
After that, I realized that this ESTJ really wanted to contribute their get-things-done gifts and do things. They wanted to really contribute to the details, which I wasn’t used to. I never had a direct ESTJ client before this.
My Se was getting in the way. I wanted to be appreciated for my work, rather than just see it through and appreciate the outcome.
Finally recognizing this issue, I made the decision to let this person do as much as they wanted to do. It felt like a revelation!
This shifted the project dramatically, from more stressful and confrontational, with both of our hands feeling tied, to a more fun, collaborative relationship.
ESTJ reflected on some physical stress symptoms they were having. This was alarming to me; if I had those symptoms I’d consider a complete career change. It seems to me now that this person is over-emphasizing their core gifts without achieving balance. They probably feel very raw inside, with no rest. They may have to learn to force themselves to rest.
I noted, too, that my Ni was asserting itself in our conversations—ESTJ would come up with an idea, and I would think (perceive) quickly and say, “ah, so what will happen then you do that is outcome X. What do you want to do about that?” I was drowning this person in details. Details they love, but don’t have time for. I could see it was causing them frustration.
That’s been another hard part: Watching an ESTJ who is in a leadership position where Ni is actually very important. They can’t give up control of the minor details, but desperately need to focus on the big picture.
I can’t solve that problem, but I think I contributed to the solution of our problem.
There’s much more laughter now. I enjoy working with this person.
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The following is not medical advice. If you are suffering from depression, always consult with a medical or mental health professional.
I wrote a little about depression behavior for INTJs on Reddit today and then really wanted to expand on it, including some possible solutions.
First, an important update: Where I’m at with Depression and How I Cure it Every Time and Some Notes and Tips on Productivity Exhaustion may be useful to you.
Second, a quick article to read afterwards: Modeling and Detecting, Important INTJ Skills — this article illustrates even more things that helped me on my own journey toward conquering depression.
In fighting loneliness, I discovered that I could make little decisions that helped me out. Decisions that improved my chances of feeling social comfort and camaraderie. In effect, some of us are able to force ourselves to bring balance back to our lives and include more social activities. We see the problem, then we do something about it. I got great results from following my own plans for achieving balance:
Sometimes I thought that being around other people would make me feel worse. Often that turned out to be right, but not all the time. It helped me to track the severity of my symptoms; this gave me an opening to make my first steps toward more socially-outgoing behavior when the depression symptoms weren’t as severe.
To fight existential angst, therapy can be a great option if available. I personally found that if possible, it’s best to meet with a therapist who is a good match for your personality type. When I met with a therapist, I would ask myself—are they:
Here is a helpful chart for reference.
If the therapist’s personality type was not a good match, I found that I could end up with someone who might have helpful tools for me, but delivered them in a strange (to me) way, or someone who encouraged me to develop gifts that they possessed rather than nurturing my own gifts. I don’t really blame them—that’s hard work, softening up your own psychological point of view so that you can recommend that someone else walk a path that seems foreign to you.
Identifying and scrutinizing unhealthy world concepts
I find mind mapping to be a great way of getting mental imagery on paper. This helps me get my thoughts out in a concrete way, so my thinking brain can begin to categorize, systematize, organize, and solve problems.
I would ask myself: What does your vision of the depressing world look like? Why does it look like that? Are there some big pressures on me right now? (School, work, family, etc., list them)
Have I had any recent experiences that led me to think in this way? (Watching a depressing film, hearing some sad news, reading an apocalyptic novel, or whatever)
What would help me to get objective data in this area? For example, someone else’s perspective. The fact that others are positive tells us there may be things out there worth being positive about, no matter how much we feel the opposite is true.
In that case, some shocking perspectives were really uncomfortable but did provide me with quick relief: If it’s school—*If you don’t want to write the final papers, don’t do it.* Quit school and figure out something else to do. Or change majors. Or put school on hold while you start a business. See? Fixed the depression. (You may laugh, but I’ve seen this work. The depression stopped instantly.)
If anybody can quit school, it’s an INTJ, the master contingency planner.
University Admin A: “The objectives and targets always came from us. Who’s giving them to him now?”
University Admin B: “Scary version? He is.”
— Slightly-modified Bourne Supremacy quote.
Regarding thoughts of suicide, I’ll make a couple of general points:
First: Immediate help such as an outside-ask and things like suicide hotlines are available. An outside-ask is where you ask someone for help instead of continually pushing yourself to work through it alone. You can go to the hospital, or ask someone you trust. I found that even hanging around other people would help, sometimes. Regarding suicide hotlines, people recommend this like it’s some sort of emergency eject button, but some report it doesn’t help them. I have never tried it myself. Still, I always thought that if I was thinking of suicide, I might as well keep the options open and that may include calling a suicide hotline service.
Second—this was an important discovery that helped me: Suicidal thoughts represent very black and white thinking, right? “Things will never go well and I’m doomed to repeat the same patterns over and over.” or, “Success and fulfillment now or imminent death.” It’s almost comically hyperbolic.
Maturity is marked by solving problems with nuance rather than black and white thinking. So, I learned to give myself permission to do a full range of things before seriously going suicidal. For example, quitting school. Wouldn’t it be better to do that than die? Or, before quitting school, changing majors. Or, before changing majors, taking medical leave or meeting with a counselor in person.
Often, counselors will refuse to discuss online if you’re suicidal. Especially via email or Skype. This is unfortunate because these are some of the easiest methods for an INTJ. So I found that I could feel frustrated and blocked by that. But at the same time, it’s not like I was glued to a chair in front of a computer. And a lot of the time I found that I would autodidact (self-teach) my way through some of the issues anyway.
I found that psychiatry could help, when I needed it. Therapists and psychiatrists can make a great team.
I kept a log of these therapeutic experiences and it helped me to identify what was working and what was not.
Many INTJs who are first confronted by thoughts of suicide can get pretty freaked out just that the idea of suicide even came up. This happened to me. However, I also learned that my mind and body were exhausted. They needed a vacation of sorts. They needed support. Everybody needs those things; without them, it can be hard to bounce back from even “normal” problems. So it is freaky, that’s for sure. But I learned not to be too surprised, given the circumstances. Once I found time to rest, the feelings would often pass and I could learn to confront and overcome the feelings in a less-urgent setting.
INTJs are very objective thinkers. However, our specialty feeling process is a subjective feeling process. I found that it was crucial to bring in measurement, like a spreadsheet, like research questions, like third-party input. All the objective stuff. Because subjective feelings can really be unreasonable and near-nonsensical.
I found that it helped to view the suicidal thoughts as a sign that my mind/body wanted attention now. “OK body! Sorry buddy, I’m all ears.” I learned to never ignore it. I would immediately make a plan. I found that sometimes all you need is some proof that you are making a bit of progress. Taking decisive action. Even (or especially) mundane stuff. For example, I made a list of things I felt like doing. If I didn’t feel like doing anything, I would get some sleep first.
I also learned that there may be some important decisions to consider, like quitting a crappy job. Being decisive was helpful. I would try it, see how it went. “Now I’m back to square one, but at least I don’t want to jump off a bridge.” Whether a big decision or not, it felt good to be in control of life again. The next job or opportunity would usually be better.
INTJs can become very emotional with relationship partners, children, parents, etc. looking to them as a sort of medication. This is risky behavior for an INTJ since it conveniently masks the need to take responsibility, take control, and be creative. And INTJs are great at those things.
In my experience, dependence on others is likely to get at the wrong means of solving INTJ problems. INTJ thinking (objective research and measurement of actual data) is better than INTJ feeling for this stuff. By a long shot. Sometimes though, I did just need to be around people, and that’s OK.
I noticed that this biting criticism was very easy when I was exhausted. So I learned to recognize that I should get some sleep first, or meditate. I would make sure I felt rested and relatively calm. Next, I would refer to a journal of progress in working on my own life. For example, I’d make a list of things I needed to do, and next steps on those things. Whenever I do this, I find that I regain control, and as a result, my patience with others would start to come back.
It also helped me to study personality type. Rather than expecting others to “know how to be an INTJ”, I found that I could learn their strengths, and speak to those strengths when I communicated with them.
To fight a loss of effectiveness at work/school tasks: In many cases it was helpful to me to take my planning away from my computer or phone. When I arrive at the computer, I have a plan in mind. I add time-wasting websites to my browser’s “banned websites” tool, or I play a little game where I start with 50 points each day, and lose 10 points for every time-waster website I would visit, gaining back 10 points for every 30 minutes I spent on a values-directed, goal-oriented activity, no matter how simple and fun. The key was fun. I found that some websites were sucking my energy away, keeping me wrapped up in a stress cocoon.
A big danger of the computer is the reinforcement loop. You may know about this from Youtube’s video suggestion features. If you watch one video about “10 Home Improvement Tips” pretty soon it thinks you are REALLY into Home Improvement Tips. Well, I found that my mind has an inner system that does the same sort of thing. A computer can become just one more tool for such reinforcement.
Do you have a list of things you don’t wanna do, but which are super necessary to do? Here’s how I attack those. I call it the Three C’s: Comfort, Clarity, and Courage.
With this process I have solved gigantic problems. I hope it helps you, too!
As a kind-of fourth C, Communication is also huge. I learned that I could tell counselors, tell professors/teachers/bosses that I was struggling. “I’m struggling right now. If you have some feedback for me, I’d love to hear it. I’m not sure I know how to get through this at the moment. In your class/team/job I seem to be struggling most with X and Y.” I learned to be open-minded and try everything they suggest. Then I would report back to them. Not treating them as if they owe me anything, but just being responsible and keeping communications open.
Years ago I started a list of my interests. Why? Because I would forget about them otherwise! Someone would ask me what I liked to do, and I’d think, “uh…computers…read books…uhhh” but in reality, my interests in those areas were very deep. So I started a list of my deep interests. There are some peculiar hobbies in there, like collecting little toy race cars with rubber wheels and lots of decals. But that is way more interesting to me to remember than reading “toy cars”.
I also create my own rule-sets and frameworks for lots of things now. Rules for being me, rules for working in the morning, working in the afternoon, rules for the end of the workday. But this also includes the fun stuff. A framework for various hobbies. A framework for taking vacations. And so on. It feels great. I found that it’s most helpful to complete the loop and refine my ideas, or go back and edit them, as I get more experience. Frameworks should gradually become more elegant over time: They should become both simpler and more powerful. Please see more in my article on “Ti”, linked below.
INTJs often find themselves giving into sensory excess when they feel down. This can include: Drinking, drugs, overeating, binge-watching TV or movies, binge-surfing on the web, PMO, other sensory activities (possibly undereating/overexercising too).
I call these “cave man behaviors”. In my opinion, you don’t have to feel guilty if you’ve been indulging in some action films while depressed and have become a sort of aficionado. And sure, it’s important to work on the more destructive ones. But I think everyone has a bit of cave person inside of them.
For us INTJs, the INTJ brain-body system automatically goes here if we aren’t giving our gifts enough attention, or if we are overwhelmed. It’s a cave man response: “Gog no can figure out how to make fire. Gog go smoke a cigarette.”
I found that I could attack these problems with extraverted thinking (Te). Te is like the modern man emerging from cave man mode, to implement the amazing gifts of your INTJ brain. Look up Te and read all you can about it. But here are some steps that helped me:
I found that I needed to start thinking better and develop my own methods to help me tackle life with huge amounts of leverage. It’s not easy at first, but the better I became at it, the more motivation I discovered, and the more of a happy person I became.
Finally, as an invitation, I hope you will consider starting your own blog or writing an outline on the topic of dealing with depression or good mental health. Why? Because INTJs often learn best by teaching. Funny to think about, but really too true for many of us.
I hope you find this useful. Let me know (email address is up in the sidebar) if it helps you out. I love hearing from my friends of all personality types.
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Impressions: A book doesn’t have to be great, just a bit inspiring, and even then only in parts.
Also, I’d like to move up my memory list to the 2-digit words, review them. Find that—Lorayne?
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From “Survival Games Personalities Play,” by Eve Delunas, Ph.D.
Delinquency is one form of the “Blackmail” game that Artisans play when they feel anxious, intimidated, not good enough, or scared. The two purposes of the delinquency game are to excite one’s self and to punish others.
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