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Topic: Renderer mods

Attached is a document that describes the modified renderer I use in my AoI renders. I will post a jar file also so others can experiment with it.

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Attachment icon mods.pdf 578.62 kb, 915 downloads since 2012-03-24 

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Re: Renderer mods

Just: Impressive. I'm going to try it...

Don´t start chasing rainbows - get caught by them.
Deutsches Portal für Art of Illusion

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Re: Renderer mods

Hi !

Thank you for your efforts to keep things going forward !!!!

Well, i've testet it.

This extra darkness you added, in AO and MC it leads to false results, it darkens

areas that are direct lit from a lightsource (or the surrounding).

Strange to look at.

I will still stick to your first version.

Sometimes i sit and think other times i just sit !

Have fun !

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Re: Renderer mods

neozautis wrote:

Hi !

Thank you for your efforts to keep things going forward !!!!

Well, i've testet it.

This extra darkness you added, in AO and MC it leads to false results, it darkens

areas that are direct lit from a lightsource (or the surrounding).

Strange to look at.

I will still stick to your first version.


Can you post a sample scene?  I have not seen the effects you describe. I didn''t add extra darkness, just the ability to darken shadows in MC by decreasing the default number of diffuse bounces. This has no effect on AO and only affects MC if you change it from the default. If I set max diffuse bounces to a low value then shadow areas are darker in MC, no change in AO, but I don't see a general darkening.

Are you putting images on both the diffuse and emissive maps when using MC or AO?  My mod uses both maps. If you open an existing scene that uses an environment map it will not work correctly as only the diffuse or emissive map will have an image.  I put an hdri on the diffuse map and a blurred version of the hdri in the emissive map. When using an environment map I used to always use an emmisive environment, so I am used to having to change the default emissive color from black to white, but some people would use a diffuse environment which has a default color of white. When using an emissive texture you must also remember to change the default emissive color to white.

Another thought, what is the roughness parameter set to on your materials?  A fully diffuse surface needs to have the roughness set to 1. Just setting the specularity to zero will not be enough because of the fresnel effect. On some of my old scenes for example I had a ground surface with speculariy zero but the AoI default roughness was still set to 0.2. This will cause a darkening effect because some light now gets reflected, and this light is subtracted from the light available for diffuse illumination.

The skull images in my pdf were rendered using both my modified renderer and the AoI 2.9 renderer and I don't get the darkening effect. I do note that the tabletop seems ro get brighter when the environment texture smoothing is increased in the v2.9 render, but this seems like a problem with the texture smoothing.

If you can post a sample scene I will take a look at it.

Last edited by wallyr (March 25, 2012, 2:41 pm)

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Re: Renderer mods

Hi !

I made you 3 renders,.

There is no use of hdri here, i am at the edge of memory with this one.

I use AO, midgray surrounding. All rendered with the same setup.

1st the orig. renderer

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With_the_Original.jpg, 171.02 kb, 800 x 600
With_the_Original.jpg 171.02 kb, 43 downloads since 2012-03-26 

Sometimes i sit and think other times i just sit !

Have fun !

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Re: Renderer mods

Now with your first mod-file:

No visible dif. for me !

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Your_First_Version.jpg, 170.92 kb, 800 x 600
Your_First_Version.jpg 170.92 kb, 47 downloads since 2012-03-26 

Sometimes i sit and think other times i just sit !

Have fun !

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Re: Renderer mods

Now with your last mod-file:

If you toggle between the last 2 you see what i mean.

Post's attachments

Your_Second_Version.jpg, 171.65 kb, 800 x 600
Your_Second_Version.jpg 171.65 kb, 47 downloads since 2012-03-26 

Sometimes i sit and think other times i just sit !

Have fun !

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Re: Renderer mods

OK, tried it out with an old scene. Don't know that there is much difference using PM.
(like Neo's, this scene has a standard light - I don't have any Images to use as an environment map at this point)
You've seen it before. http://www.friendlyskies.net/aoiforum/v … hp?id=2645

I'd think that any time you change something in the renderer, lighting will shift a bit.

On the other hand, Using MC, the render is significantly darker - maybe twice as dark!

attachment was done using PM.

EDIT: oops - he was talking about AO - ignore this image!!!

Last edited by ljs (March 26, 2012, 8:08 pm)

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repurposedExpRender.jpg, 159.28 kb, 550 x 250
repurposedExpRender.jpg 159.28 kb, 49 downloads since 2012-03-26 

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Re: Renderer mods

Me again! Be warned -  this post is something of a hodgepodge.

Couple of questions and comments. First off, the improvements shown in your side-by-sides are impressive! Thanks for the documentation -  its nice to see WHY things are done.

1: Nice to see that we can now use the seperate diffuse and emissive channels for IBL properly! I kind of get the feeling that this was part of Peter Eastman's original plan, but he never got around to it.

Just a thought: If you want a really surreal effect, the diffuse and emissive channels don't have to correspond at all! (Green light from a pink sky, anyone?)

2: Fresnel: Have not got to try this one out, but it sounds cool. One thought: You might want to add a check box to allow the user to disable this effect. (If you use procedural textures, there is a module called 'view angle' that is somethimes used to fake a fresnel effect, and the editor allows you to (theoreticaly) do much more sophisticated things with it - you might want a fresnel-like effect on an object that has a high surface roughness, for example. Your render tweaks, as written, could interfere with this.)

BTW: in your example, is the room in the background modeled, or an image? If an image, where did you get it? (most of the backgrounds that I have seen are wide open - sky scenes, etc.)

3: Render Presets are available in the AR (advanced rendering) plugin. You probably need the second most recent to interface with this modded renderer - the newest has an emergency patch to get around the 'progressive rendering' added in 2.9 - just choose raytracer, rather than advanced raytracer as your renderer.

4: I see that 'extra rays for soft shadows' etc. (was your mod to start with) is no longer available. Missing? Didn't work the way you thought? Just curious.

5: Is the source code available somewhere? I might like to take a look - I'm just learning, but its nice to see what others have done.

6: If you want more helpful feedback, please post these mods on the sourceforge forum - most of the programers don't spend a lot of time on friendlyskies.

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Re: Renderer mods

neozautis wrote:

Now with your last mod-file:

If you toggle between the last 2 you see what i mean.

I suspect the darkening is due to the fresnel effect. I am using the roughness setting to control the amount of fresnel effect. A completely diffuse surface with a roughness of 1.0 will not have any fresnel, but smoother surfaces will show the effect. The surface looks darker because the reflected light does not contribute to the diffuse illumination. If you want a flat diffuse surface finish, set the roughness to 1 as well as the specularity and shininess to 0. The attached render shows the same scene on top with surface roughness 1 and below with the default roughness of 0.2, try setting the roughness to 1 on the textures in your scene and see if the darkening effect goes away.

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compare.jpg, 258.74 kb, 800 x 1000
compare.jpg 258.74 kb, 43 downloads since 2012-03-27 

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Re: Renderer mods

Yep, that does the trick !!

I will try your mod further on, it really looks promising !!

Thank's, pal .

Do you know anybody who could dig into the extrude-code?

Anything besides straight extrusion tends to screw up, i am so tired of it.

Can't be to hard to point a normal vextor of a cross section towards another point of the curve used as the extrusion path or am i wrong ?

Anyway, keep up your good work !!!!

Last edited by neozautis (March 27, 2012, 2:00 pm)

Sometimes i sit and think other times i just sit !

Have fun !

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Re: Renderer mods

neozautis wrote:

Do you know anybody who could dig into the extrude-code?

Anything besides straight extrusion tends to screw up, i am so tired of it.

Could you post an example of what you mean? Maybe start a new thread about this?

If you don't have a sourceforge account, I could post it over there for you.

ljs

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Re: Renderer mods

Hi !

Hope this explains it...

The upper one is a shape i formed manually along that curve after straight extrusion.

With the extrusion function via that curve you get the lower one  lol

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weird_extusion.jpg, 33.88 kb, 800 x 600
weird_extusion.jpg 33.88 kb, 48 downloads since 2012-03-28 

Sometimes i sit and think other times i just sit !

Have fun !

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Re: Renderer mods

@neozautis:

This should be pretty simple. Pull up the editing window for your cross section object, and go edit>center curve. This moves your object's center to (0.0, 0.0, 0.0) in object coordinates. This matters because the extrude tool uses this coordinate system for extrude along curve, orientation follows curve.

Just a guess - you did a bit of tweaking to get that cross section shape right before trying to extrude?

@wallyr: Sorry for the threadjack - the renderer mods do look cool (and useful - not always the same thing)

ljs

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Re: Renderer mods

AAAAAhhhh...

It works !

You know, i did center the object to extrude....but than i moved it to the first point of the curve and aligned it (approx.) onto it's second point.

Man...thank's !

Sometimes i sit and think other times i just sit !

Have fun !

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